Newzbin Resurrected: Team R Dogs send out a mailer to entire Newzbin email list

// 21st May '10 Newzbin Resurrected: Team R Dogs send out a mailer to entire Newzbin email list

Right, well I'm sure this isn't exactly news to most of you judging by the fact the email was sent to the entire ex-member list of Newzbin, but for those who haven't registered, here is what it said:

Hi ex-Newzbin user.

Lamenting the departed site? Dreading doing Usenet the old skool way? Think the clone NZB sites suck?

Good news: we are Newzbin Two, and we have glad tidings: NEWZBIN IS BACK! and we are the new management. The crew got most of the original Newzbin source code and the main databases. We loved it too much to let it die.

The catch? We wont be up for a very short while cos things need to be done. For starters we need a cool domain name; also we need to hack on the code some more to make it run. We are nearly there but it is very complicated. We reckon we'll up very soon.

So don't drift off to those lame-ass wannabe NZB sites. Hang on for a little longer and the Big Dog will be back. For news keep an eye on these news sites:
http://deepsharer.wordpress.com/
http://www.usenetshack.com/
http://torrentfreak.com/

Mr White Team R Dogs/Newzbin2

Credit Cards?

Let's not beat around the bush: this is a massive breach of privacy and indeed breaks the Data Protection Act in the UK on more than one point. However, for those worrying about their credit card details: please don't. Newzbin never stored your payment details, at first it was via RBS's Worldpay or Paypal and later it was via their own system but they never stored your payment details. Remember when you had to enter your card details every single time you topped up? Why would you have to do that if they stored your details? You wouldn't: they explicitly didn't keep them for this exact reason.

To be honest, we're just stoked that another Newzbin is on the horizon; 3 days without the site was quite enough thank you very much, hopefully it won't be too much longer till the clone returns (although don't expect it to have amazing retention once it does).

Any questions? Head them our way and we'll try and answer them to the best of our ability.

djm posted by djm
This entry was posted in Industry News and tagged newzbin, nzbs. Leave a comment. Header image by graphicclunarkid

42 Comments

  1. Ciaphas Cain
    Posted May 22nd, 2010 at 01:05 a.m.

    I’ll have to shine a torch on this:

    They are hackers.

    Attempting to tread carefully so as not to invoke the wrath of our newly discovered friends: Who/what they are make me not a little bit nervous.

    IF they are the Che Guevara to our Batista and their intentions really are to resurrect our bestest friend and bringer of goodies Newzbin I’ll be so happy I’ll probably shit my pants.

    BUT, will Newzbin2 be free or will the old payment system ping back in to life with the rest of the site?

    Not to sound ungrateful for their efforts but the pure fact that they HACKED the site and STOLE the code and database contents they need to pull this off has me wondering if they won’t pull the same stunt on me/my bank account.

    Yes, yes, I have to enter the details every time but what’s to stop them from intercepting our details as we enter them? Nothing!

    Just some food for thought, I’ll be watching closely to see how this pans out.

    Oh, and despite the above, thank you to the Team R Dogs guys for their efforts and fight to keep a good thing alive. We’ll see what the future holds.

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  2. Psyonide
    Posted May 22nd, 2010 at 01:05 a.m.

    Good point. If they do go with the paid model I would be leery if they chose to use an integrated payment system. I would only feel comfortable topping up with them if they used a verifiable third party.

    The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what their motives are, since all we have is their word. Time will tell how this will pan out. I do hope for a positive outcome.

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  3. Posted Jun 24th, 2010 at 06:06 a.m.

    which part of the union of "stolen code" and "verified [payment gateway]" lends the greatest credence?

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  4. Psyonide
    Posted May 22nd, 2010 at 01:05 a.m.

    I have to say, my eyes lit up when I checked my e-mail and saw that message. In the 3 days since Newzbin's closure I got by on a combination of nzbmatrix, nzbs.org, and binsearch, but Newzbin has spoiled me so much that I cannot be satisfied with them.

    At first I was worried about privacy, but then I thought "what information did Newzbin actually have on me?" Aside from my e-mail ... nothing. As I recall, Newzbin set it up that way intentionally so that their users could not be incriminated if their logs and records were ever seized. The admins pointed that out to their panicked users on more than one occasion during the lawsuit period, and even before that.

    I'm willing to forgive Team R Dogs this time, because they did it in order to give me this wonderful news. I'm extremely excited to see Newzbin 2, and hopefully their servers will be in a place where it will be harder for the lawsuit brigade to reach them.

    It almost feels like going back home, in a way.

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  5. Mr. Gusten
    Posted May 22nd, 2010 at 09:05 a.m.

    Short comment with regards to payment, and the fear of intercepting Credit Card Informations. The whole idea in the security model of using a third party "payment provider", is that the website does not have to deal with securing these confidential informations. Remember that you were actually re-directed to another payment site when submitting payment method. The payment provider has to do deal with that, and also has to struggle with compliance issues such as PCI etc. Therefore - I would not be worried if the new site uses a "trusted" third party payment provider.

    That said - this whole "story" of hackers, stolen source code, mass mailing promises sounds really really strange to me - I think there is a lot more beneath the surface.

    But that is the whole beauty of it! The beauty of an Internetwork which cannot and should not be regulated! almost cheering ALL INFORMATION SHOULD BE FREE but I won't coz im willing to pay for a service as good as newzbin.

    Can't wait to see what the next days or weeks will bring to this.

    To Newzbin guys - I hope you are doing great - cheers and have a great summer

    /Mr. Gusten (ex-newzbin) (newzbin2 prospect :-)

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  6. Peter_Pan
    Posted May 22nd, 2010 at 10:05 a.m.

    A bit off-topic but....

    Take a look at this: http://www.unzbin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=466

    "PUnz is a full featured PHP/MySQL solution that allows anyone to run their own NZB site."

    When (if) we get an app like that, we wont be needing www-sites.

    We just subscribe to some guys/groups feed and grab all the stuff (NZBs) we are used to grabbing.

    What do you think?

    Peter_Pan

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  7. Posted May 22nd, 2010 at 10:05 a.m.

    Hi Peter,

    We've actually already written an article on PUnz a couple of days ago.

    While it is an interesting development, I sincerely doubt the quality of the released script will reach anywhere near the levels Newzbin hit - it will most likely be more the option for newbies wanting to set up their own NZB sharing site rather than the all-encompassing powerhouse that Newzbin was.

    By the way, it won't be a desktop app either - as it's written in PHP it'll most likely be a hosted solution and therefore be another website for whoever decides to set it up.

    Cheers, djm

    | Link to comment
  8. Peter_Pan
    Posted May 22nd, 2010 at 11:05 a.m.

    Yeah, I realized you had written about PUnz a few minutes after I had sent my comment :-(

    Its just that I think PUnz is such a great idea - if it works - if it can be done.

    Lets wait and see.

    Peter_Pan

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  9. Posted May 22nd, 2010 at 17:05 p.m.

    Alternative to Newzbin = FTD with NZBuddy Take a look here: http://www.nzbuddy.nl

    | Link to comment
  10. Max
    Posted May 22nd, 2010 at 18:05 p.m.

    Has anybody else noticed more spam at their Newzbin address?

    I just got my second spam email to that address - ever. The first one is the topic of this article.

    I don't want to be jumping to conclusions here, but I /don't/ get spam at this address. I've used it for other sites, but typically it's my 'personal email' address.

    If Mister White sold my email, Newzbin Redux or not he's totally lost me =/

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  11. Cryptic Edge
    Posted May 23rd, 2010 at 02:05 a.m.

    No more than usual, but then, my spam filter is quite good too and I haven't seen more than 3 a week get through in ages as compared to 100+ a day prior to putting the filter up.

    | Link to comment
  12. t@kt@k
    Posted May 23rd, 2010 at 19:05 p.m.

    No difference in Spam whatsoever in my NZB'd Gmail box so I think if yours is also Gmail you're probably getting it form somewhere else, if it's hosted then you need to tweak your Spamassassin settings better...

    | Link to comment
  13. Posted May 24th, 2010 at 22:05 p.m.

    I doubt they've sold your email; I haven't noticed a marked increase in spam.

    A good way of finding out who sells your email address is to append "+name_of_service" before the @ sign (if your provider supports it, gmail does). So for example on Newzbin I could have used mail+newzbin@usenetshack.com and I'd still get the emails but then also know who sold my email on if someone ever did.

    | Link to comment
  14. Mr White
    Posted May 26th, 2010 at 17:05 p.m.

    Max, TeamRDog did spam (yea I admit it was spam) ex-users. Spamming is a scummy thing to do we thought hard about it but then thought that more people would be happy to hear good news than be pissed off. We only sent one email (not sure if there were any dupes - possible depending on the script) but we DID NOT sell the email list on to anyone else and would not do so. I cant explain how spam got to you email but it wasnt us. Honest

    | Link to comment
  15. Max
    Posted May 26th, 2010 at 18:05 p.m.

    Thanks for the comment!

    I accept that it must have been a one-off on my side. Still unsure who/where it came from, unfortunately =/

    I was already leaning towards it being a weird (paranoid) coincidence, thanks to the other helpful replies. Your comment sold me. I figure instead of lying outright, if you did sell emails you would simply ignore my comment.

    It's reassuring to read that you wouldn't sell any emails in future either. I believe you.

    You should do an interview of some kind with Usenetshack. You could address some questions I imagine will be answered eventually anyway. For instance "when did you decide to create Newzbin2", "what are your motives" "how will the site be run", etc. I Imagine it would go a long way in reassuring people and helping secure an initial userbase which I think is essential with a site like Newzbin.

    Cheers, Max

    | Link to comment
  16. Unknown User
    Posted May 29th, 2010 at 07:05 a.m.

    Yes, the same happened to me! I used to receive perhaps 1 or 2 spam per day and now it's a whopping 57 in 12 hrs - and getting worse with every day! And it all started 1 day after I received the Team R Dog announcement and commented on it here on usenetshack. So if it wasn't them it must have been usenetshack or what other conclusion should I possibly draw? Anyway, that's no coincidence and really pisses me off!

    | Link to comment
  17. t@kt@k
    Posted May 23rd, 2010 at 19:05 p.m.

    The big question for me: will people with long prepaid periods (like me) get their days credit over to the new site???

    | Link to comment
  18. Max
    Posted May 23rd, 2010 at 23:05 p.m.

    Hopefully the new site won't have a credit system at all :)

    | Link to comment
  19. john
    Posted May 23rd, 2010 at 21:05 p.m.

    any news of what time scale we are looking at for newzbin 2

    | Link to comment
  20. s
    Posted May 24th, 2010 at 05:05 a.m.

    Uh, I just don't see it happening. Newzbin was a complex system developed and administered by a talented group of people. Outside of the three running the site, I don't think anyone realizes the intricacies of the code to actually establish another site. Not only that, but Newzbin required a lot of equipment to run full steam.

    Now I can certainly expect a new reincarnated newzbin to scale back and even possibly get the site up and operational. But then comes the moral dilemma. Can you trust people that stole the code to handle your account details with as much care as the original team (bar a few exceptions)? How long until they're shutdown by the MPAA/RIAA? There are a lot of questions up in the air. If they really wanted to help the community, they'd just leak the code so that everyone can cherry pick what they find useful so they can improve their respective sites.

    More importantly, we need a better model for distributing NZBs that doesn't rely on a central point of failure. I think the Punz idea would be excellent. If reporters/posters/editors all have the required tools to setup websitse and have that information aggregated, we can work on a more resilient system that might scale better than newzbin.

    Also, almost forgot to mention. Will the editors continue to report for a Newzbin2? I hardly doubt it. Newzbin under the original administration had a huge amount of goodwill, not only in terms of customer base but relationship with the editor staff. I think much if not all is gone under a new ownership/management.

    So while it might be a pleasant surprise to hear from those that stole the code. It's just wishful thinking if you expect a Newzbin with all the glory of the original . I also don't expect the former management assisting in the setup and the continuation of Newzbin2, they're clearly uninterested and want to move on with their lives.

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  21. Andy Jeffries
    Posted May 24th, 2010 at 10:05 a.m.

    Everyone seems to be saying "if they stole the code, how can we trust them". I'll say the thing that I'm sure some other people are thinking...

    What if they were given the code/database and full instructions. A "we can't condone this as we've just been reamed by the MPAA so we'll publicly say it was stolen and never admit otherwise" form of denial, while behind the scenes it's a big middle finger to the copyright-police.

    Maybe we're painting Team R Dogs as thieves whereas in fact they may be good guys who are having to paint a certain picture for legal protection of Newzbin.

    Of course, they'll have to deny I'm right - but food for thought for everyone to maybe give them a chance...

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  22. Posted Jun 24th, 2010 at 06:06 a.m.

    en essay much?

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  23. Whomever
    Posted May 24th, 2010 at 16:05 p.m.

    Seriously? I can't believe it took someone as long as it did to say what Andy said! It makes the most amount of sense. Give em a chance, and use a CC if you're unsure! You can always cancel your credit card if something goes bad.

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  24. Max
    Posted May 24th, 2010 at 19:05 p.m.

    Actually it was sort of mentioned in this article

    :)

    It's cool to think about, but it was raised somewhere that the code was actually stolen in January sometime. We don't know for certain /when/ it was stolen do we? I forget.

    The other big point that floats to my head is - "why not open source the entire site?". Surely they would be against simply letting any single entity become the 'new Newzbin' because it'd get put under immense heat early on. If many different (Newzbin influenced) sites pop(ped) up there would be a higher chance of a good outcome (no expensive trials) for at least some of the new websites.

    The Newzbin team have to be against any new central point of failure. The impression I got from Caesiums(?) interview was:

    "Too hard. Too much work. Too trying and tiring and dangerous. I'm done".

    If that was genuine then why, in good conscience and sanity in-check would you release it to any other single entity. You'd be knowingly giving someone hell!

    If it was a 'cover story', and running Newzbin is .. 'manageable' then why not continue running the site? I'm purely assuming here, but it was a limited company. So wouldn't it be possible to start up again- but differently? Maybe in another country, smaller, more discreet.

    Then again, maybe that's exactly what's being done. But I doubt it.

    • I hope this makes sense. It's 4am ^_
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  25. Posted May 24th, 2010 at 23:05 p.m.

    You know what, you're the first one to work out the Markdown system Max. Congrats :)

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  26. Psyonide
    Posted May 25th, 2010 at 05:05 a.m.

    Central point of failure? People seem to forget that nzb indexes are entirely superfluous and not required. Every index could disappear tomorrow and Usenet binaries would keep going as they always have. As far as the ability to use Usenet goes, there is no failure in an index being shut down.

    If the goal is to make Usenet usage as decentralized as possible, then I would suggest foregoing web-based indexes and improving how Usenet clients interact with binary groups. A breakthrough advance on header retrieval, listing, and sorting on Usenet clients would render Usenet virtually untouchable. A middle man would be removed and the lawsuit brigade would have no target to attack.

    But that's wishful thinking on my part. I enjoy the convenience of NZB sites, but I do keep in mind that so long as I have the server access and the software, I never don't have access to Usenet binaries.

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  27. Roy
    Posted May 25th, 2010 at 15:05 p.m.

    Well it looks like there are a lot of gullible people in here for one. And of the people that do have the idea, think a tiny bit harder.

    Chris has to go, no two ways about it, from his point of view. If he doesn't leave the scene entirely then he WILL be hounded legally for the rest of his life.

    He has also said as openly as he can without going into great detail that newzbin didn't make him rich, but it DID make him comfortable. If you're comfortable, you're denying and hiding the fact that actually, you're doing pretty damn well. So ignore that Chris says it wasn't about the money, he has to say this to give himself credibility to the MPA etc.

    He goes onto say he already sold the site in January to someone else and all responsibilities that go with it, then also says the code was stolen in January (if a clone popped up and he had sold it to someone, not had it stolen, chances are the MPA would know where to find them and shut that site down too).

    So what is the best solution, you owe 3/4 of a million, you are "comfortable" and so don't wanna lose all your money (and lets not forget your income) so you simply team up with someone else, go more stealth and underground and profit from the new newzbin and possibly cut all ties in favour of one big payoff.

    My bets are on this team r dogs having chris as a silent member, or the leader probably. Or ya never know, there may not be any team r dogs, it could just be a case of he has effectively gone into digital witness protection so next time, they don't come looking for him. Can't be him again, it was stolen from him! Meanwhile team r dogs aka chris are carrying on as per usual.

    Main thing is, Newzbin was 100% a money spinner, it had a huge user base paying subs so dream on for it being open source. And also chill about the new owners, they didn't steal anything at all, thats one of the reasons Chris is so fine with anyone stealing his hard work.

    Inside job all the way!

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  28. pxy
    Posted May 25th, 2010 at 19:05 p.m.

    That's all well and good. Except Caesium is an intelligent guy and Team R Dogs aren't. He would never deride other sites openly nor partner with those that do. If he were to be a silent member with any group, it certainly won't be with a bunch of juvenile yahoos that come up with an unoriginal name.

    But more importantly, if you speak with Caesium on IRC, you will quickly learn that he seriously doesn't care about nzb sites except pointing out that the state is abysmal. He setup a site, left a legacy (the NZB format), and wants to take a step back and remain as a bystander. Understandably so.

    Please stop spinning these lame conspiracies. Just speak to Caesium himself. If you recall all correspondence from Newzbin and Caesium directly, he's never said anything that was dishonest or a lie. So when he says he's uninterested in continuing with indexing sites, he means just that. Time to get a job, and move on with your life. He definitely got paid for his work, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to remind himself what he's getting himself into partnering up with others. He will most likely end up shouldering all the work.

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  29. itsmeagain
    Posted May 27th, 2010 at 16:05 p.m.

    Well personally I have the same thoughts as Roy and nothing anyone says is going to change my mind either.

    If Chris was that bothered about they getting hold of the leaked code or database he would have done something about it himself in so called January so my opinion is this is a clever ploy to avoid further procecution.

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  30. Max
    Posted May 27th, 2010 at 19:05 p.m.

    itsmeagain, I'm not sure I follow your thinking on this.

    'Chris' has said that he doesn't care.

    Additionally, in January, I don't think anyone was aware it had been stolen. Having said that, I no longer have any idea why/how January is allegedly(?) when the code was stolen.

    What is most confusing and intriguing to me is how and when the code was stolen.

    According to Caesium he sold Newzbin Ltd in January; It makes sense that it could have been stolen then, sure. But there is no evidence.

    We have this, from the initial article here on usenetshack:

    "...the code base and several of the large databases used to run Newzbin have been "stolen" when their co-located server got hacked. We have just had official comment from Newzbin on this and they have guaranteed us that the hack did indeed take place and they have definite proof it did happen."

    So a server was broken into. It would make sense if the code was stolen at that time. However then we have this quote from a more recent article:

    "On the matter of the source code theft: it seems it was stolen a long time ago: Caesium has said that the code fragments revealed to him looked like old code versions. If so it seems that TeamRDogs stole the code some time ago and have been sitting on it, rather than it being an odd coincidence of timing. TeamRDogs may have decided to move in now Newzbin was out of the picture. I would also speculate that because a number of contractors outside Newzbin has the site code, TeamRDogs may really be one of them, and the 'smash and grab' server raid story may be a cover up attempt."

    How much of a cover-up attempt could the 'server raid story' have been? Newzbin confirmed it! So which is it?

    I'm very confused by it all at the moment. I still believe that the former Newzbin team have no part in the new Newzbin (supposedly new Newzbin, anyway) but that's all I'm moderately confident on anymore.

    Am I missing something blatant? This is conflicting and confusing right?

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  31. itsmeagain
    Posted May 27th, 2010 at 16:05 p.m.

    Nice business ethics as well.

    Start A Limited Company Setup a Newsbin site Attract customers to use it - 700,000 or more Make a lot of money from customers topping up Run up massive bills including software development bills Then Desolve the limited business into the hands of the receivers.

    Result is Make a lot of money Not take personal responsibility for the money they owe

    Imagine if every business operated like that eh!

    So dont defent their actions, yes they kept the site updated but it was for their own profit gain and nothing else.

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  32. Roy
    Posted May 27th, 2010 at 17:05 p.m.

    @itsmeagain

    Unfortunately mate, it may not always be completely obvious. But the majority of business DO operate EXACTLY like that.

    And its completely legal, lol. What a sham for society.

    Saying that, if I was Chris, I'd have done EXACTLY what he did.

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  33. itsmeagain
    Posted May 27th, 2010 at 22:05 p.m.

    I wouldnt have, its not about money for me its about ethics.

    Yes your right a lot of companies do this and because of this a lot of people from government officials, councils through to joe bloggs on the street with a small shop get away with it.

    I think its wrong personally and they should be held accountable regardless. If you committ any other breach of the law you are so why a different set of rules for LTD companies.

    There should be no way to desolve the company apart from bankrupsy for the owner because there is nothing stopping someone getting into Millions of debt then starting again the following week under a new business name.

    All part of the grant governmental laws in the UK and the currupt people who run it to protect themself from being procecuted themself.

    Rich people suck, I hope they all die real nasty deaths.

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  34. gpdvd
    Posted May 31st, 2010 at 05:05 a.m.

    So using your logic, the "grand plan" to rip off your pathetic couple of bucks was to get the MPAA to sue and close their business for them leaving them liable for massive debts, debts that prior to the raid were allowed to accrue as they no doubt had A+ credit. This last line "Rich people suck, I hope they all die real nasty deaths." says a lot more about you than them.

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  35. itsmeagain
    Posted May 31st, 2010 at 15:05 p.m.

    NO it was their grand plan which backfired on them, nothing to do with me at all.

    The software development they didnt pay for was also their choice. If they were in credit why didnt they pay for the development instead of mounting up the debt to neally half a million dollars.

    They just didnt expect to get such as large fine when they were procecuted under a LTD company.

    700,000 customers paying topups to use the site is still a vast income of which they ran it as a business to make money as Ive pointed out above.

    So to clear things up

    They ran the site They They mounted up a large software development debt They were procecuted for their actions Their site was handed over to the receivers It was all their doing. Nobody elses.

    As for rich people they do suck. They think their untouchable and have a law to themself. Their lives are bound by greed

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  36. Arnaldo
    Posted May 31st, 2010 at 21:05 p.m.

    I just hope you don't change the design. One of the things that stood out and felt the best about the Newzbin was their design. A few days ago I signed up with nzbmatrix, fooled around a bit and at the end couldn't convince myself to become a VIP member ... it just didn't feel home ... you know what I mean .... it didn't stand out the way Newzbin did. I guess I (and a lot of us) are spoiled by Newzbin. So I only hope you guys keep the design.

    I did read somewhere it will be a straight clone, but meanwhile I read somewhere else that there will be a new design. So my proposal: when you are asking for users to vote for the new features you have in mind, also ask them to vote whether to keep the original design, color, scheme ..... of the site, or to change it to something else.

    P.S: I'm soooo glad I found this (literally on my very last attempt to look for a good news like this) before becoming a VIP with NZBmatrix .... so Plz Plz hurry up .... Ohh and also I never received the email that you sent to all newzbin memebers, even though I've been a member for 5 years

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  37. ren
    Posted Jun 5th, 2010 at 03:06 a.m.

    I have been a member of newzbin and still have 6 months left. I never got this email. Is this news real? Kinda makes you wonder.

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